USA Ultimate

Well, I think we're here.  We're live.  Everyone, welcome to The Ultimate Nation.  We are back after a bit of a hiatus.  I'm Matthew from USA Ultimate.  

Today we are joined by Kyle Weisbrod, our U-19 WJUC coach, coach of Washington Element, and former UPA Youth Director and board member.  

Kyle, welcome.  Thanks for joining us.

Well, thank you so much for having me.

So, there are a lot of things we want to talk about today, you are a man with many hats.

First thing, let's talk WJUC.  We just posted a list of the tryouts for the east coast and west coast tryouts.  As the coach, let's talk about your talent identification.  

What are the kind of qualities you are looking for a team member?

Sure, absolutely.  So, you know, I think, the first thing to start with is defense.  One of the things that I think is really challenging about the switch from high school play at the girls level to playing at the U-19 level or playing at the college level is that the step up in defense is a big jump.  

Typically the high school girls level, success happens when you have your offense down, and you can succeed with your offensive side of stuff, and the defense isn't as challenging.

When you get to the U-19 level, the defense has to be there as well, so we definitely looking for players who can play really hard open side defense, good marks, stuff like that.  Just fundamental defense.   

And in terms of, how would you say the difference is at the international level of competition versus what they are used to playing at high school and YCC?

Yeah. So I think a team can win at YCC, or High School Easterns or High School Westerns based on having a really smooth offense.  And the defensive stuff of stuff, it's getting there especially at YCC.  You know, I saw a lot of great defence at the finals of YCC, but for the most part the success is coming on the offensive side of things if teams can execute offensively.  

U-19's is different.  I think that every team there is going to have good offensive systems, and what separate teams is can you disrupt their offensive systems, so we are looking for strong defenders.  There are a lot of other things we are looking for.  We are looking for players who can play roles, play systems.  This is another thing that I separates most levels of high school girls ultimate from college or the U-19 division at worlds, is that at the high school level teams can be successful with one or two players doing a lot.  At U-19 worlds you need be able to utilize seven players at a time.  You need to be able to use the different options, and this goes back to the defensive side of things.  If one or two players is getting shut down, they have a really tough match-up, you need to be able to win in different ways, and you need to be able to score in different ways.  

So, we want to have players to understand how to play in systems who understand how to hit the open receiver, who don't feel like they need to hold the disc for too long - that kind of stuff - and who know how to create space, and create space for other players.  That's a big thing.  We want team players who are positive.

Well, you have some great assistant coaches and some good talent IDing assistants, so I imagine you'll have good input in making those decisions.  Sorry I interrupted you, but I'm going to jump to the next question.  What did you learn specifically from your experience coaching in 2012 and what is it going to take to win in 2014?

Well, I think it is a big challenge.  This is the division the U.S. has gone dry longer than any other.  It's been, the last time the U.S. won a gold medal was in 2006.  And there are some challenges.  Like I said, I think there is a bigger jump between high school (where the players are currently playing at) and where they are going to be playing at in Worlds then they are in any other division that you play in.  So, a few things that are really important.  I think we need to be more adaptable than we were two years ago.  I think that we really need to bring an A mental game.  I think that we were successful for much of our trip in 2012, that campaign, but I think we weren't adaptable and I think that starts with the coaches.  I think the coaches need to be more adaptable.  

One of the things that is interesting about WFDF tournaments is that they aren't as structured as USA Ultimate tournaments.  Games don't necessarily start on time, not as much clear sideline boundaries, stuff like that, and so players need to be willing to roll with the punches, to be able to work and be adaptable and stay in their own mental game in those situations, and I think that starts with the coaching staff of being adaptable in our warm-ups, in the way we prepare teams for those big games. 

Nice.  Well let's talk about WFDF.  You've been rather unabashed in your criticism of WFDF not using observers.  It is partially probably in response to the 2002 [^1] Japan Canada game and this most recent bronze medal match.  But, last September they created a task force called "To Consider Its Position on the Spirit of the Game and on-field officiation issues in ultimate".  If you read their press release, it explicitly states that the purpose isn't "Should WFDF Adopt Observers?".

Given what they've said about it, what do you see as a reasonable outcome for this task force?

Well, I want to start - I was raised like many of us were in kind of a pure self-officiating environment.  I started playing fall of '93 and didn't experience observers until '98 at the Stanford Invite.  And I remember going to that with trepidation going, well how does that change the way the game is played.  But, over the years I've realized how much observers still allow that player interaction and the players to own the game and set the tone of the game, interact with each other and resolve disputes.  

The things that observers do is help, especially expedite the process, they make things move along quicker.  And I think that one thing - that WFDF has this huge opportunity with the World Games, and it's the biggest display of the sport in the World.  There are more fans in the audience, and I think that to keep the focus on the players on the field and what we're doing, and the self-officiating, I think we need to keep the game moving.  I think when you end up with long debates for two minutes, it really slows down the game and distracts from what the players are doing.  So I think that the best outcome to me is having observers.  I think observers strike a really great balance of allowing Spirit of the Game while also still keeping the game moving and keeping it spectator friendly.

Hmm.  So yeah, I suppose.

Do you have a time frame on when you think WFDF will move in that direction?

Well, I mean I would hope that we would have observers in place for the next World Games in 2017.  I mean, I would love to have observers for any WFDF event coming up that I'm coaching team at of course, but I would hope that WFDF would at least start experimenting - get lines people involved with their big events this summer.  And start feeling it out and getting feedback from the players and teams that haven't experienced the involvement before, so that when they hit that big stage next time, they're ready to implement a really robust system.  USAU is, and the UPA before it, has been doing stuff with observers since about 1990, and more formally since 1998, and even more structured in the last five or six years.

Actually, even the early 80s, some of the championships had observers.  Even the 1980 UPA Championship had observers on the lines.

Yeah.  So, it has taken a long time to refine to where we are at now, and where we are now is a really great place.  I think I haven't seen an observed game in three or four years now that I have any issue with.  I think that they have been beautifully run, so much so that people don't talk about it very much.  The last time I could think of a game was that 2010 College Open final that people got frustrated with and there were some changes that came out that made it even better.  

I think it would serve WFDF really well to start working on it now and get Worlds with a really tight system that does allow Spirit of the Game to showcase that players owning the game and playing cleanly within that, and then their athleticism and their skills, because I think that we do that, it becomes a game changer.  It's a game changer on the international stage, and I think the downside of not doing it is that people, if we don't provide and alternative, I think that there is enough issues with this pure self-officiating that we've seen at these high levels, that that kind of referred model, which does take the game out of the player's hands, is going to start becoming the alternative, 'cause that's what people know.  People are coming into the stadium at the finals of the World Games, and they've never seen an observed game, and all they see is a self officiated game that is not working very well, they are going to say, well why don't we use referees.  All these people who are getting their first impression of the sport are going to want referees, and I don't think that is what we to want.

And you see observers as the perfect happy medium?

Yeah, I think they strike a really great balance.

Well, you just gave your prediction on when you think WFDF is going to move to observers.  Let's talk about your prediction skills.  We're actually going to move back nine years to 2005.  

We just recently posted a news piece which was looking back at an article you had written in The Ultimate History Book in 2005. You and Will Deaver wrote it together outlining all sorts of things of where you see the future of ultimate.  

How would you rate your soothsaying skills?

You know, I thought we were pretty accurate on them. I mean, I think it's a little unfair, we had a pretty good view of what was going on at the time, and we knew what we were involved with.  Some of the things I remember we predicted like having standards for coaches in terms of how they related to players on the field, we were in the middle of writing that, and we made a prediction that it was going to happen.  That kind of stuff was really easy.  But, when I look at the end of that article... 

Low hanging fruit.

Yeah, there was some low hanging fruit.  But when I look at the end of that article, I think that's where we hit the nail on the head.  And a lot of people could say it was obvious at the time that this is where we would go, but we're at this point now where ultimate is hitting the mainstream, and we're deciding what do we change about ultimate to make it more popular with the mainstream, and what do we say, this is ultimate, and the mainstream comes to us.  And I think it's a really interesting debate, and it's something that's coming up a lot in this MLU and AUDL stuff.  

It's coming up a lot with USA Ultimate and the Triple Crown Tour, and my general belief is that we should be sticking with the values that we have, because I think they are values that our society wants, or that our society is interested in, and you see stuff like ESPN coming to USA Ultimate, and I think that speaks to that.  I think it speaks to the fact that people want fair play, and people want fair play to be on display, they want player ownership of those things, people want gender equity in their sports, and I think the way that we should be positioned is that these are our values, and it's going to work out for us, and I think that's the way it's going to be, as opposed to let's drop the values and sell a sport that is like every other sport out there, and I think the sports marketplace is really flooded, and I think that you have to kind of create a differentiator.  

So, I think that value-based kind of version of ultimate is better for growth, and I think it's just better.  I think it's morally right, and it's the right thing to do. 

Another thing I want to mention about that piece - one thing that you predicted was the growth of youth ultimate, and some of that could have been that you were Youth Director at the time, and you sought success.  You actually predicted that there would be more youth members either than college or club, and while we've passed that in club have haven't done that for college.  

Well, the prediction was for 15 years, not for nine years. 

Fair point, and we'll probably get there.  

One thing as Youth Director that you put into place was the Youth Club Championships, and moving away from strict high school based play and part of that was developing stronger State Championships and moving away from having what was having Junior Nationals which split to Easterns and Westerns.  

Now we have the four Regional Championships.  How do see that continuing, do you see us getting to the point where we just have states?

Yes, so I imagine at some point that those Regional High School Championships will start to fade away, and I think that states that are really well developed I imagine them moving away from USA Ultimate, honestly.  I think that these states can organize and govern themselves, and that is actually what we saw 10 years ago and why we created the Youth Club Championships.  

The idea behind the Youth Club Championships is to have an external every - the idea was that eventually there would be or the vision would be - that every community outside their high school play would have a club league that would maybe compete in a different time of season, and then the top players of the club league would be the ones going to the Youth Club Championships every year.  Because there is so much structure and support in place for high school sports, that was something that would probably be unnecessary long term, and you see that happening I'm here in Seattle now and I watch the high schooll play here and they are very self sufficient.  

I think USA Ultimate does a really good job of helping develop and put into place some initial structures, and things like the coaching clinics, the PE outreach - stuff like that that helps grow the sport, but then you get to a place here like Seattle is where you have a middle school league, a really big high school league with a girls' division, a boys' division, a mixed division, and almost every school has those teams, and it has a DiscNW which has a really competent and a really well-functioning local league helping structure that and do that, there is not as much on that side that USA Ultimate can bring, but the club league is where I think USA Ultimate can be a big part of helping and driving that use in the Youth Club Championships.

I mean, certainly Seattle is in a unique situation.  Even just looking at the WJUC tryouts list, you had the most representatives there from that city.  DiscNW is obviously a really well-run organization, and there are few cities that have that much structure in place, but that's where we want to go with the league affiliate model. We are trying to work with other leagues to get to the point where they can run more programs to develop places for people to play.  I hope your predictions are right in terms of growth of youth ultimate, and hope maybe you can write another piece at some point predicting the next 10-15 years. 

We are going to move on.  

You are the current coach of Washington Element.  You took over the program last year, if I'm right, after they had won a championship.  What are your expectations for this year after a quarterfinals exit last year?

I think last year we saw very much a rebuilding year.  We had eight returners from that team that won the championship in 2012.  I actually got involved pretty late.  I wasn't officially coaching the team until January.  We didn't make cuts until January, and we grew a lot during that season.  We didn't really know what to expect of ourselves last year, and I think it was great for us in a way.  We built a lot, and we kind of set our target or eyes on quarterfinals.  We lost our Callahan nominee and kind of the heart of the team before the series started, Sarah Davis, CO, and we performed really well.  We hit where we wanted to hit.  

That said, I think we could have done a little bit better.  I think that there were a couple of games that maybe were a little strategically mismanaged, but I think that all said we did a great job.  I think this year our expectations are a little bit higher.  We didn't graduate much from last year's team.  We have a really good new group of players.  We've got five players on our team who are graduating this year who could be starters on any team's double-game-point line, and I think that we have a lot of power.  

I think the goal and the challenge is, there's a lot of other great teams out there too.  So, balancing our own expectations and what we think we can expect for ourselves with keeping the focus on every single day and just going out and playing our best.  Playing championship ultimate at every single practice we go to...

So, in terms of your team dynamic - you wrote a piece in the magazines, I think it was a two-part series, Authentic Ultimate, where you kind of talk about having team values.  

How would you describe Washington Element's team values. 

So, it's a four-part series, actually.  The last part will be in the next issue.  Our values are integrity.  Integrity means commitment to fair play, doing the right thing by ourselves and by our team, and by our school.  It's trust.  So, I think teams trust in each other, our team trusting teammates, as well as trusting teams external to us and the calls they make and those types of thing.  And our last value is defab, which I can't really get into that too much, but I can say it's more just a commitment to honoring each other and honoring the teammates on the team.

Nice.  Random question.  

How many bids do you think the Northwest women will receive this year?

I think the region is going to deserve six bids.  I think it's possible we could earn six bids.  I think we've got six teams that are nationals quality teams.

That would be a first.

I think it's hard for a region to earn six bids, but the growth in the region is really awesome, and it's great that we get to go and play teams at Bellingham Invite or our sectionals tournament and you are playing at an incredibly high level of play, not just in one or two games, but in several of those games. 

Well, Tom is about to join us.  He is going to give some closing thoughts.  One random thing: I did a little bit of digging reading some old posts on RSD.  

According to internet ultimate lore, in 2000 the semis of Easterns against Oregon, you lay claim to having pulled the disc and catching a Callahan on the first throw, and being the first person to do that. 

Yeah.

So that's true?

I did that in the semifinals of Easterns against Oregon. That happened. I mean, to be fair, it was only because my team got down on the pull. I think it was downwind, so the pull was really long, it was toward the back of the end zone, and then Josh Greenough threw it a little high over Ben Wiggins' head, so I...it went over Wiggins' head, and I pulled it down.

Any guess why "The Weisbrod" didn't catch on as the name for that play?

You know, it doesn't really roll off the tongue. It also doesn't happen frequently enough that every time it happens, people like, "Hey this happened, is this the first time it ever happened?" So you know if something happens once every, you know, two or three years, it doesn't really stick as much as something that happens all the time.

Well before we have Tom talk about, i'm not sure what he's talking about today, let's see real quick if there are any good questions. you know people can submit their questions to #ultimatenation on twitter or use the Q&A app, I suppose, of this hangout.  It looks like we do have one question from Glenn Poole. And actually it looks like it's a question for USA Ultimate. he asks...

"Teams from abroad visiting the U.S. for tournaments are getting exposure to observers.  Are there any plans for USA Ultimate to coordinate with organizers in other countries to experiment with observers, Windmill Windup and whatnot?".  

- Glenn Poole, via hangout Q&A 

I mean, I don't know if I can, I probably can't necessarily speak to that. I mean, our focus is on events in the U.S. and the U.S. Open is a great opportunity for international teams to come and experience the observer experience but I can't imagine our resources would be put into doing that, you know, in other countries.

No, I can make a quick comment if that helps. Obviously, that's one of the goals of the U.S. Open was for international teams to get some exposure to the observer system. We are working really closely with WFDF right now on a whole initiative to talk about observers and people having a chance to experience them.  It's at a point now where it's hard to say what the time table will be or where it's gonna go, but lot of active discussions, even last night, between us and WFDF on this very topic.  So stay tuned and hopefully we'll see some developments.

Well, lots of things in motion. One more thing before I turn this over to Tom for his closing thoughts. First, I want to thank Kyle for joining us. Kyle feel free to monitor the comments for this video in case people have any more questions for you, maybe you can take the time to answer more of their questions. Come back the same time next week, we're going to have Michelle Ng of Without Limits joining us, and we'll have some future shows planned soon, and send us your ideas and thoughts. Go ahead Tom.

Kyle, thanks if you're still there. Appreciate all your time.

Thank you.

All your wisdom, helping us the way that you do. Greatly appreciated. So, Matthew what are we going to talk about today?

That's up to you.

I've got the Olympics on my mind.

Because opening ceremonies coming up, or because your wife is there?

Both actually. It's on my mind because my wife, my wife is there. She's, as you guys all know, the director of international operations. Been in Sochi for about a month and lots going on over there right now. Big huge rush to get ready for opening ceremonies. Athletes testing the venues, some competition actually started today. Some concerns for sure, security concerns, not all of the hotels and facilities are 100% ready to go, so that's been an interesting experience.

They still have a couple days though, right?

They've got a day. I guess. Actually, no. Competition starts today, so athletes are competing right now, but, beautiful beautiful place. Russians are working unbelievably hard to try to make it a great experience. They are really nice people and are doing their absolute best to be great hosts.

So I'm thinking a lot about it because my wife is there, but also because some phenomenal athletes from the U.S. are there and so a lot of people may know that we have been pursuing relationships with both the international Olympic committee and the U.S. Olympic committee. And that is underway, so that's the other reason that it's on my mind.  As a matter of fact, we have a call really shortly with the U.S. Olympic committee, to talk about a couple of issues, at one o'clock this afternoon.

But I wanted to just take a minute to describe to everybody that's tuning in about why this is an important development for USA Ultimate, way beyond the long long long term dream as Nob has described it, of maybe getting on the Olympic games program. That's a long term goal, of us and many other sports are hoping for that. But what comes with this Olympic recognition is an incredible amount of credibility in the United States where we join, when you join the Olympic family, you are then a legitimate sport in the United States.

And a lot of people don't understand how sport is organized in the United States, so way beyond getting on the Olympic program, it's about becoming part of the family, and the reason that's important is because other members of the family include the NCAA, is a member of the USOC, the national high school federations are members of the USOC, boys and girls clubs, YMCAs, so essentially the US Olympic committee functions in the united states as the ministry of sport, so once we become recognized under that umbrella, all of those relationships that are going to be really important to us to grow ultimate and create new and better playing opportunities for all of our athletes and the coaches and the families that are all getting involved grows dramatically because we become a credible sport in the United States and all of those relationships just become much much easier.

And so getting on the Olympic program long term goal, there are steps we'll take along the way to try to get there that are underway right now. and it's going really well, we're getting a really really positive response which is really cool, but there's a lot more to it than that. It's, imagine if we're on the menu of every boys and girls club in the united states because we're part of the family, we have meetings with them, they see that we're now part of, under the umbrella, and at boys and girls clubs all over the United States, we're on the menu. At YMCAs all over the country, we're on the menu. The national high school federation sees us as part of the Olympic family. All of a sudden those doors start to get easier to open.

So long-term goal, Olympic program, but a lot of other things and with the Olympics kicking off tomorrow, I encourage everybody to tune in, and it won't be long before we really feel like we're part of that family, which is a really exciting development.

Well we all hope so. Tom alluded to Nob's article, I suppose, on that. That was I guess the fall issue of USA Ultimate magazine. 

Yep.

You should look at his letter to the editor. He kind of outlines the steps we need to take internationally to meet minimum standards of growth for the sport.  Thank you, Tom. and we'll see you next week. 

You're welcome. And thanks for bringing back the Ultimate Nation. 

Yeah. 

Do I get to wear a headset the next time?

Ah, perhaps. 

Okay. That would be fun.

Anything else you want to say?

No, that's it. Thanks. I'm psyched that we're doing this again. I really can't wait to see what you've got up your sleeve. I think it will be entertaining and fun and great for the community so thanks for all your efforts.

Thanks! And one more thing. Wanted to mention that we welcome your feedback and ideas. Use the comments below or send us an email to ultimatenation@usaultimate.org. And hopefully we'll get some more questions in next time when Michelle Ng joins us. 

That'll be cool. Can't wait. Thanks!

Thank you.